A NEW interpretation of end times prophecy this week. Former radio broadcaster longtime student of Bible prophecy Joe Ortiz, author of The End Times Passover and Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation, believes scholars have misinterpreted key passages that are commonly thought to point to the Rapture — a literal “catching away” of believers before (or, as some believe, during) the so-called Great Tribulation.
Joe argues that Christians will indeed suffer great tribulation, and he supports his claim with scripture. The good news, says Joe, is that just as God protected the Hebrews in Egypt, so Christians will be supernaturally protected through the trials to come.
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One will be LEFT:
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRGRK8.htm#S863
aphiemi – from apo – apo 575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):–cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
Has more of a negative connotation. Other dictionaries suggest even ‘divorce’.
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One will be TAKEN:
paralambano {par-al-am-ban’-o} from 3844 and 2983; TDNT – 4:11,495; v AV – take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50 1) to take to, to take with one’s self, to join to one’s self 1a) an associate, a companion 1b) metaph. 1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be 1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience 2) to receive something transmitted 2a) an office to be discharged 2b) to receive with the mind 2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the tradition proceeds 2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers (used of disciples)
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and RECEIVE you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
RECEIVE is the SAME word translated as “One shall be TAKEN”
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Meet:
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRGRK5.htm#S529
apantesis – a (friendly) encounter:–meet.
Used in:
Matt 25:1, Matt 25:6, Acts 28:15, 1 Th 4:17
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/CONGRK52.htm#S529
In each case it is nothing more than a meeting. No ‘escort’ implied.
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It sounds to me that given a choice of translation possibilities, he’s chosen words that support his non-pre-trib rapture point of view.
Personally, I don’t know if the rapture is pre-trib, that is why I also dig into these things.
The rapture timing hinges on the “Day of the Lord”…
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the affliction of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
When do the sun and the moon darken?
BEFORE the day of the Lord.
This shows the gathering of the elect occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord.
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable day of the Lord come.
The Two Witnesses also arrive BEFORE the Day of the Lord…
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD
We know the Two Witnesses testify 1260 days, are killed, resurrected and ‘raptured.’ This has to occur within the first 1/2 of the 70th week of Daniel. Meaning the Rapture is at the latest, mid-trib, and earliest pre-trib.
Question is, WHEN is the day of the Lord, and how long is it? Is it 1 day, 7 years? 3.5 years?
Just my 2c….
http://teotwawkii.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=iTBvsl3LSKY%3d&tabid=36&mid=407&forcedownload=true
Both Joel 2:31 and Acts 2:20 declare that the sun/moon darkening (which Jesus said will happen AFTER the tribulation) will occur before the day of the Lord. Since this posttrib darkening is AFTER the tribulation, and since the day of the Lord is AFTER the darkening, this means that the day of the Lord starts AFTER the tribulation. Since Paul ties the day of the Lord with the rapture, this means that the rapture is also AFTER the tribulation. Simple, isn’t it? And this is what all official Christian theology and organized churches believed before 1830. For deeper info Google “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Pretrib Rapture – Hidden Facts,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” and “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy.”
Derek, once again, Thank You for the opportunity to share a small portion of my two books, which took some 20 years of research to produce and write. Obviously, it would be impossible to respond to all of your listeners and those who have left comments here. Therefore, anyone who would be interested in examining the two volumes, I would be more than happy to email them FREE copies of both, to those who will send me their email address, in either PDF or Word formats.
My position is not to prove that my findings are more correct than others, mine has always been about seeking truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
My email address is .
Once again, thanks for the opportunity to share with your audience!
Many blessings to you and Sharon; keep up your great works!
In His Peace,
Joe Ortiz
Love is …….
patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (1 Corinthians 13:4-7)
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AS9dVV_URABMZDY0cDczcV81NDBoZ25mNDRjMg&hl=en
This was an incredibly soft interview. Mr, Ortiz spends about 15 minutes discussing his thesis, and the rest discussing his own successes and the shortcomings of other “christians”. Disappointing work by the usually stellar Derek. The thesis might be solid as a rock, or it might be quackery – these 70 minutes do not even scratch the surface.
One question I can answer for Joe is “What is the purpose of the Millennium?” The Millennium is the time when Christ acts as the rightful ruler of Earth. Christ is the New Adam, and like Adam, He is entitled to rule this planet. Eventually God will remake this planet (the New Earth) but for one thousand years, Christ will finally, physically assume His rightful throne as King of Kings and Lord of Lords of this version of Earth.
If this doesn’t happen, Christianity is a lie and so is all respected Jewish prophecy. We need a Millenial kingdom, even if it’s more or less than ten centuries’ duration.
I appreciate your comments, Skeptical, even if I didn’t live up to my “usually stellar” work. I encourage you and everyone who found this topic interesting to take advantage of Joe’s kind offer to email electronic copies of his books at no charge.
You are absolutely correct in your description of the Millennium and our need for it. To echo the apostle: come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Hey you ALL need to look at Micheal Hieser’s Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time” blogs on his Naked Bible website….in fact Derrick you and Dr.Future..Tom Bionic….Sharon…should do a whole months worth of shows on this blog. I mean this stuff hes espousing is blowing my mind and I cant wait for more…I’m not worthy of even trying to paraphrase his direction…just you ALL need to check it out.
The other side of the story:
http://www.thewhyman.jesusanswers.com/custom4_1.html
Weigh, consider and determine which fits the Bible.