THE PROPHET Isaiah saw a bleak future:
Behold, the LORD will empty the earth and make it desolate,
and he will twist its surface and scatter its inhabitants. […]
The earth is utterly broken,
the earth is split apart,
the earth is violently shaken.
The earth staggers like a drunken man;
it sways like a hut;
its transgression lies heavy upon it,
and it falls, and will not rise again. (Isaiah 24:1, 19-20, ESV)
Are we seeing the signs of the end that Jesus told the apostles about? Steve Wohlberg of White Horse Media discusses the prophetic implications of the devastating earthquake in Japan on 3/11/11.
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If prophecy is supposed to help make sense of disasters, what is the sense in the earthquake? Were the majority of the people killed — ‘destroying the earth’? If there is a purpose, what is it? According to Mr. Wohlberg, I get that the sense of the disasters is to give a nod to Christians that things will get better for them eventually, i.e. the return of the Christ(20:38-21:21).
Also, I don’t remember that story of Noah — of how Noah pleaded with God to save others; I remember Lot or Abraham doing this for people in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Good question Derek, regarding explaining disasters to non-believers — but unfortunately the answer didn’t make sense to me, a non-believer, and I tried.
(47:00) isn’t basically your belief that God (instead of the Earth) is cleansing the world? Can you not see the similarities in ideology. The Flood and End Times both serve to cleanse the Earth. I’m sure there are just as many Neo-pagans as Christians who’ve resigned themselves to death according to their beliefs, whose hearts will waver if disaster comes. “Those silly believers in a cosmic custodian – ha, ha, ha.”
Excerpts from Examinations of the Prophecies, by Thomas Paine: Re: the Micah prophecy — “The book of Micah … is speaking of some person, without mentioning his name, from whom some great achievements were expected; but the description he gives of this person, ver. 5, 6, proves evidently that it is not Jesus Christ, for he says, “and this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise up against him [that is, against the Assyrian] seven shepherds and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod on the entrance thereof; thus shall He [the person spoken of at the head of the second verse] deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. This is so evidently descriptive of a military chief, that it cannot be applied to Christ without outraging the character they pretend to give us of him. Besides which, the circumstances of the times here spoken of, and those of the times in which Christ is said to have lived, are in contradiction to each other. It was the Romans, and not the Assyrians that had conquered and were in the land of Judea, and trod in their palaces when Christ was born, and when he died, and so far from his driving them out, it was they who signed the warrant for his execution, and he suffered under it.”
Re: pieces of silver —
“Matthew xxvii. 3-10: “Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, what is that to us, see thou to that. And he cast down the thirty pieces of silver, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, it is not lawful to put them in the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field is called the field of blood unto this day. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value, and gave them for the potter’s field, as the Lord appointed me.” This is a most barefaced piece of imposition. The passage in Jeremiah which speaks of the purchase of a field, has no more to do with the case to which Matthew applies it, than it has to do with the purchase of lands in America. I will recite the whole passage: Jeremiah xxxii. 6-15: “And Jeremiah said, The word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Behold Hanameel, the son of Shallum thine uncle, shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth, for the right of redemption is thine to buy it. So Hanameel mine uncle’s son came to me in the court of the prison, according to the word of the Lord, and said unto me, Buy my field I pray thee that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin; for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew this was the word of the Lord. And I bought the field of Hanameel mine uncle’s son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver. And I subscribed the evidence and sealed it, and took witnesses and weighed him the money in the balances. So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open; and I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle’s son, and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed [the book of the purchase,] before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison. And I charged Baruch before them, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open, and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days. For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land.” I forbear making any remark on this abominable imposition of Matthew. The thing glaringly speaks for itself. It is priests and commentators that I rather ought to censure, for having preached falsehood so long, and kept people in darkness with respect to those impositions. I am not contending with these men upon points of doctrine, for I know that sophistry has always a city of refuge. I am speaking of facts; for wherever the thing called a fact is a falsehood, the faith founded upon it is delusion, and the doctrine raised upon it not true. Ah, reader, put thy trust in thy creator, and thou wilt be safe; but if thou trustest to the book called the scriptures thou trustest to the rotten staff of fable and falsehood. But I return to my subject.
There is among the whims and reveries of Zechariah, mention made of thirty pieces of silver given to a Potter. They can hardly have been so stupid as to mistake a potter for a field: and if they had, the passage in Zechariah has no more to do with Jesus, Judas, and the field to bury strangers in, than that already quoted. I will recite the passage. Zechariah xi. 7-14: “And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me. Then said I, I will not feed you; that which dieth, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. — And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day; and so the poor of the flock who waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price, and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter; a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord. Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.”
[NOTE by PAINE: Whiston, in his Essay on the Old Testament, says, that the passage of Zechariah of which I have spoken, was, in the copies of the Bible of the first century, in the book of Jeremiah, from whence, says he, it was taken and inserted without coherence in that of Zechariah. Well, let it be so, it does not make the case a whit the better for the New Testament; but it makes the case a great deal the worse for the Old. Because it shows, as I have mentioned respecting some passages in a book ascribed to Isaiah, that the works of different authors have been so mixed and confounded together, they cannot now be discriminated, except where they are historical, chronological, or biographical, as in the interpolation in Isaiah. It is the name of Cyrus, inserted where it could not be inserted, as he was not in existence till one hundred and fifty years after the time of Isaiah, that detects the interpolation and the blunder with it.”
Last comment, I have to make — ‘opportunity out of crisis’ sounds alot like ‘order out of chaos. This last comment is an attempt to rein in peoples tendency to make occult secret-society connections from simple statements. I could just imagine someone claiming Mr. Wohlberg may have questionable beliefs due to this statement.
“A truth that makes sense…” – Amen(Ra) to that.
Hello Brother Derek,
I really appreciate what you and Sharon do. Your progrmas have been a blessing to me for the short time I have been listening to you.
I wanted to comment on the guest you had for VFTB 079. I am not sure if you knew or not, but Steve Wohlberg and White Horse Media represent (whether officially or not) the Seventh-day Adventist Church. As I heard Mr. Wohlberg present his beliefs regarding the endtimes, they sounded very familiar to SDA teachings. This church has some very unbiblical beliefs that make it a cultic religion that preaches a different gospel. This church follows the teachings of a latter-day “prophetess” named Ellen White who taught that in order to be saved in the very end believers must keep the Sabbath day, or else receive the mark of the beast for keeping Sunday. SDA theology presents salvation by grace plus works. It teaches soul sleep and annihilationism. These come from Ellen White’s writings that influence SDA’s understanding of Scripture. They hold her writings as inspired as the Biblical prophetic writings. I know about this because I spent 30 years in this religion before someone shared the Biblical gospel with me and the Lord saved me.
To know more about this religion please visit these sites:
exAdventist Outreach
http://www.exadventist.com/
Official Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
My Personal Testimony
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/testimony.html
Normally I do not like to cast a less than favorable light on a show guest, but I thought this was serious enough to make you aware. SDA apologists often do not shed light on what they really believe to those outside their faith because, like the Mormons, they are ever seeking to appear as mainstream Christians in order to draw more people into their church.
Thank you and God bless you Derek. And Sharon too!
Rolaant
Hello Brother Derek,
Thank you and Sharon for all the work you do to provide high quality programs that deal with important issues in these last days leading up to the return of Jesus.
I wanted to comment on Steve Wohlberg of White Horse Media. While he seemed to me to be a sincere and well-meaning gentleman, please let it be known to you that he is a Seventh-day Adventist and the views he expressed came out of that religion. Seventh-day Adventism follows the teachings of a latter-day “prophetess” called Ellen White. Her writings are considered to be the “Spirit of Prophecy” in this religion and in a practical sense act as inspired infallible commentary on the Bible. Because Adventists have a latter-day “prophetess”, they consider their church to be the “remnant” church of Bible prophecy (or one true church).
Mr. Wohlberg did not mention any of this in his interview with you, nor did he mention that the deciding factor for salvation in the end will involve whether a person is a Sabbath day keeper or not. If in the end you go to church on Sunday you will receive the mark of the beast and be lost. If you become a Sabbath day keeper you will get the seal of God and be saved. Of course, Derek, you know as well as I do that salvation is not dependent on what day you go to church. Such a teaching contradicts the gospel of Christ.
Additional doctrines of Seventh-day Adventism besides obligatory Sabbath day observance include soul sleep, annihilationism, and an atonement of Jesus not completed on the cross.
There are many other teachings of Seventh-day Adventism that present a different gospel from the one in the Bible. Like the LDS Church, the SDA Church is trying to present itself as just another Protestant denomination in order to draw people into its religion. To know more please go to these sites:
exAdventist Outreach
http://www.exadventist.com/
Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church [note #18]
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
My Personal Testimony
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/testimony.html
I spent 30 years of my life in Seventh-day Adventism. I went through their school system from kindergarten through college. I graduated with a theology degree where I could have been on track to be a pastor. But praise God! Someone shared the Biblical gospel with me nearly 16 years ago and the Lord used this to save me from this religion of salvation by works.
I know this was a lengthy comment. Thank you for reading it. I was not sure if you were aware of the religious background of Mr. Wohlberg and so I wanted you to know.
Thank you again for all the great work for the Lord and for your listeners that you and Sharon do.
God bless you both!
Rolaant
Really enjoyed the interview. His Theological viewpoint is very similar to seventh day adventism which is the movement that has educated me about scripture. Thanks for having him on
Derek, I came here to warn you about the SDA invasion of your show, but Rolaant beat me to it.
These well meaning, but sincerely mislead,people are taking over the small TN town I live and work in. My wife and I were invited to supper at one of their homes and never had any idea that they were Adventists until I looked at the book shelf and saw that it was full of E.G. White material. Don’t feel bad if you were caught unawares.
The SDA’s never seem to tell you where they’re coming from. In each experience that I’ve had with them, they tried to bait me with seemingly innocent prophecy conversation, while leading me toward the doctrines of their false prophetess.
These are some of the kindest, most generous people I have met, but they are not honest in their approach. The S.D.A.s are definately like the Mormons, but more like the J.W.s; who I believe are cut from the same cloth.
Keep the Bunker door shut tight against these false teachers… at least until they’re ready to level the playing field and let you know who your speaking to.
T