CAN WE interpret prophecies directed at the Jewish kingdom of 2,700 years ago as a specific warning intended for present-day America?
In an interview recorded in March at the Orlando Prophecy Summit, Pastor Jonathan Cahn, President of Hope of the World ministries and Senior Pastor and Messianic Rabbi of the the Jerusalem Center/Beth Israel in Wayne, New Jersey, discusses his bestselling novel The Harbinger, the relevance of Isaiah’s prophetic warning, why he decided to write the book, and the purpose of his ministry — to point back to Christ’s atoning work on the Cross.
Here is the link to the interview I mentioned in the closing remarks: Nick Bryant, author of The Franklin Scandal, discusses one of the darkest episodes of recent American history — a pedophile scandal similar to the one just coming to light in the U.K.
Derek and Sharon Gilbert will be at the Prophecy in the News Pikes Peak Prophecy Summit July 25-27, 2014 at the Marriott Hotel in Colorado Springs. Watch for information here.
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Two quick questions. What is a “type”? What is a “shadow”?
Prophecy is for the edification of the “congregation”. It is a message from God to the congregation through a person designated by God in the language of the congregation. Prophecy has a time element. it can be immediate, it can be a revealing of the past or the future. Consider this a pool straw.
Blessings.
I am not trying to be disagreeable, but most respected thelogains have proven the Harbinger has theologically more holes than Swiss cheese.
Interesting story but nothing more. It falls into the trap of US exceptulisim, which in its self is a myth.
Another Myth slipped in, is his support of the US Government Conspiracy Theory of “Arab Terrorists” being inside the “planes” that hit the Towers of 911; and no “plane”at all hit the Pentagon. After that, his credibility resides at Zero.
Serious vetting needs to be done regarding these Guests, my Friend. There is no time, nor patience, left for these continuing Hucksters, and dis-info Agents, let us be plain in this regard. You are wasting our time with these people.
“God Shed His Grace on Thee” is a tool to support, and excuse, tyranny and terror,
world-wide, on the part of this “government”, as well. This Nation was largely formed to be the “New Atlantis”, not the discredited ‘Israel’, as he also claims.
God still reigns Supreme in all of this, yet ‘Pastor Cahn’ is a closet Zionist, in drag.
People like Cassius fail to realise that ‘Zionism’ is mentioned over 150 times in scripture…and always favourably so his decrying of conspiracies and myths is most ironic.
Of courase, the anti-semites that rail again Zionism are usually employing the equivocation logical fallacy by conflating it with the likes of the universally discredited ‘protocols of the elders of zion’ (whether they are aware of that is the basis for much of their bigotry of not)
I listened to this a few days ago and pondered on it for a few days. I have not interacted with any of his material or any material from those who critique his view. Going to try to keep this short and to the point.
On the surface, I don’t see much of an issue unless one falls into the realm of concluding God cannot and will not work against a nation in a way similar to how he did any particular nation in the pass. Also, he is not the first person I heard state 9/11/2001 was a moment which marked the beginning of a judgement from God and defiance against Him. Elliott Nesch and Raymond Schwab did a documentary sometime around 2009 entitled, “Ground Zero: The Sycamore Tree” and these two guys also made the connection to the Isaiah quotations from leaders, etc.
I personally see no theological hiccups with saying God is using warning signs no different than he did in Isaiah prophecy to warn U.S.A.
With that said, I’ve been recently moving on the fence about the whole America started out a Christian nation or America started out as something else movement. I think both sides have valid arguments and evidence to support their positions.
As far as Zionism goes, I think a lot of people, as Whyman said, are caught up in a movement that does not like to look at all sides of the subject. I do not say this with offense intended, but in the alternative theories movement I have noticed this more increasingly. Most particularly with anti-Zionism. Most Christians, sadly, not realizing God still has a work for the physical descendants of Abraham while at the same time realizing salvation is not about being a physical descendant of Abraham. I will leave it at that.
Lastly, even if you hold 9/11 was done/allowed from the inside. The point is that the strike marks the start of the judgement warnings. I’m not entirely sure that would be a deal breaker on this.
Just real quick clarification, the documentary mentioned is either Ground Zero, the Sycamore Tree or The Sycamore 9/11 Tragedy or Sycamore: The 9/11 Tragedy. It’s been some time since I watched it and currently Googling it gives different results. I brought it up mainly because, while Elliot Nesche’s views have more than likely evolved since then, at the time I know he did not agree with the 9/11 official story, however he still argued 9/11 was a sign of judgement on America.
Roy,
Thanks for commenting. I may agree with you some; I disagree some.
C’est la vie.
A “sign of judgement”, perhaps. But everything that happens is not
automatically within the Will of God. Otherwise, Jesus would not have
included (in the only prayer He ever gave us): “Thy Will be done on
Earth as it is in Heaven”: that line would be pointless.
“God still has a work for the physical descendants of Abraham”?
Accepting Jesus is their only ‘work’, or recourse, as He is the only
‘Way’. This is according to Him, and not me. The present Infestation
officially referred to as “Israelis” are not “semites”, so it is incorrect
to refer to them as such. ‘Whyman”s contentions are both ill-informed,
and erroneous, and no one mentioned “the protocols”, at all.
God cannot be deceived, but we can be, and we have been. Obviously.
“Jesus wept”. Why? He tells you why in that very passage. If you
ever read it. Because they would suffer for rejecting Him, and the
Prophets. Luke 19:41
In 1890, Nathan Birnbaum coined the terms “Zionist”- Jewish Virtual
Library. Bible illiteracy seems to be quite widespread.
Cassius,
When I agreed with Whyman it’s in reference to massive anti-Israel/Jew arguments I hear in alternative theory movements often led by statements that the people there are not descendants of Abraham. Not saying you’re doing this, but almost every time I hear someone teach that it’s in an attempt to replace them with Whites, Blacks, etc. In other words elevate another race through said racial supremacy be it White, black, whatever.
As far as does God have a work to do with physical Israel. I will simply say look into the promises of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David. Prophecy reveals the work to be done has not been fully fulfilled. Scripture also shows he’s using Israel to mark moments in leading up to the end times as well as other nations, etc.
I agree accepting Jesus is their only salvation. No where in my statements did I say otherwise, but the Promised Land, physical Israel, still has a place in God’s fulfilling his promises. This would also include the physical descendants of David which will eventually be saved as a remnant. (Jeremiah 31, Romans 9, etc…)
Finally to clarify, I do not agree that God turns a blind eye to everything Israel does, they are currently a secular nation, but upon investigating the claims of those who go off on zionism, I find them severely one-sided as well. Don’t agree with everything that zionism stands for either.
Roy
Roy,
Fair enough. I didn’t mean that you said there were ways, other than Jesus. Many believe “good works”, e.g., religion, will get them “there”; Catholics, for instance.
I admit some confusion, myself, on the role, if any, that the current rogue state of ‘Israel’ plays in future ‘history’, but as you point out, the remnant of true Israel
will exist as the 144,000 only. Kinda’ small potatoes, proportionally.
We are both exploring, and researching, and that’s why we listen here to Derek’s Shows, and that’s why we are both here, inter-acting.
As an aside, Tupper Saussy wrote “Rulers of Evil” in which he contends, and I agree with him, that government and political structure are in place to control and rule over The Unredeemed. His point being that the nonsense, sin and corruption being sold to, and instilled into, this world are largely irrelevant to followers of Jesus of Nazareth.
If one ‘belongs’ to The State, Obama, Putin, Netanyahu etc are legally able to dictate your fate, harkening back to Jesus’ response about what is Caesar’s, and what is God’s. These are the ‘Rulers’ over those who are ‘Evil. An interesting contention,
since we cannot serve two masters, as He also stated. We are in it, not ‘of’ it.
Put another way, “[D]o not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matt. 10:28)
I thought Rabbi Cahn was on to something–until I saw his photo on the dust jacket of his book–with his hand to his chin, in the same exact pose as I’d seen certain founding fathers of this country strike in their paintings, with that hand pose showing that they were free masons–sigh–I guess you can’t tell the just from the unjust these days without doing much due diligence.
What could be the reason the mason’s might seem to be telling us what’s really going on, concerning God, and His judgements? Perhaps misdirection–especially if what is being told to us has no genuine grounding in the truth of it it all–it gets us to take the wrong fork in the road, getting our attention off of what is truly vital for us to be focusing on.